Leave it to our last (mostly) honest president...

k.d.
Posts: 569
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Re: Leave it to our last (mostly) honest president...

Post by k.d. » Sun Apr 29, 2018 3:09 pm

If you don't have time to watch a 1 minute 44 second video, You won't have time for a couple million news reports.
“Everything government touches turns to crap.”

― Ringo Starr

j.p.
Posts: 343
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Re: Leave it to our last (mostly) honest president...

Post by j.p. » Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:23 am

k.d. wrote:
Sun Apr 29, 2018 3:09 pm
If you don't have time to watch a 1 minute 44 second video, You won't have time for a couple million news reports.
the video that came up was actually 17:47

b.w. richardson
Posts: 87
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Re: Leave it to our last (mostly) honest president...

Post by b.w. richardson » Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:10 pm

j.p. wrote:
Sun Apr 29, 2018 1:57 pm
But I digress. This thread was not about guns, Focus man !
I could have sworn it was about something our old friend Jimmy said about guns. My bad.

j.p.
Posts: 343
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Re: Leave it to our last (mostly) honest president...

Post by j.p. » Tue May 01, 2018 8:49 am

b.w. richardson wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:10 pm
j.p. wrote:
Sun Apr 29, 2018 1:57 pm
But I digress. This thread was not about guns, Focus man !
I could have sworn it was about something our old friend Jimmy said about guns. My bad.
You are forgiven. "Guns" in general is where many folks like to take the discussion. They have been conditioned to do so.

Jimmy's beef was about the distortion of the second amendment. I agree with him. That led to me suggesting that banning the preferred murder weapon (AR 15) might be a reasonable start to mitigate some mass murders. In addition to the total lack of practicality, possession of the AR 15 is highly likely NOT to be protected by the second amendment. The NRA seems to agree through their never ending campaign to just strike fear in folks already predisposed to be fearful. I would really like to see a court case to end this debate. Don't think the NRA would want that

k.d.
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Re: Leave it to our last (mostly) honest president...

Post by k.d. » Tue May 01, 2018 12:54 pm

And then it will be banning knives, like England.

St. George Tucker, Blackstone's Commentaries 1:App. 300
1803

This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty. . . . The right of self defence is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any colour or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction. In England, the people have been disarmed, generally, under the specious pretext of preserving the game: a never failing lure to bring over the landed aristocracy to support any measure, under that mask, though calculated for very different purposes. True it is, their bill of rights seems at first view to counteract this policy: but the right of bearing arms is confined to protestants, and the words suitable to their condition and degree, have been interpreted to authorise the prohibition of keeping a gun or other engine for the destruction of game, to any farmer, or inferior tradesman, or other person not qualified to kill game. So that not one man in five hundred can keep a gun in his house without being subject to a penalty.


The Founders' Constitution
Volume 5, Amendment II, Document 7
http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders ... dIIs7.html
The University of Chicago Press

Tucker, St. George. Blackstone's Commentaries: With Notes of Reference to the Constitution and Laws of the Federal Government of the United States and of the Commonwealth of Virginia. 5 vols. Philadelphia, 1803. Reprint. South Hackensack, N.J.: Rothman Reprints, 1969.
“Everything government touches turns to crap.”

― Ringo Starr

j.p.
Posts: 343
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:40 pm

Re: Leave it to our last (mostly) honest president...

Post by j.p. » Tue May 01, 2018 1:07 pm

k.d. wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 12:54 pm
And then it will be banning knives, like England.

St. George Tucker, Blackstone's Commentaries 1:App. 300
1803

This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty. . . . The right of self defence is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any colour or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction. In England, the people have been disarmed, generally, under the specious pretext of preserving the game: a never failing lure to bring over the landed aristocracy to support any measure, under that mask, though calculated for very different purposes. True it is, their bill of rights seems at first view to counteract this policy: but the right of bearing arms is confined to protestants, and the words suitable to their condition and degree, have been interpreted to authorise the prohibition of keeping a gun or other engine for the destruction of game, to any farmer, or inferior tradesman, or other person not qualified to kill game. So that not one man in five hundred can keep a gun in his house without being subject to a penalty.


The Founders' Constitution
Volume 5, Amendment II, Document 7
http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders ... dIIs7.html
The University of Chicago Press

Tucker, St. George. Blackstone's Commentaries: With Notes of Reference to the Constitution and Laws of the Federal Government of the United States and of the Commonwealth of Virginia. 5 vols. Philadelphia, 1803. Reprint. South Hackensack, N.J.: Rothman Reprints, 1969.
Sorry. But I can't imagine a bigger pile of irrevelance than what you just posted.

k.d.
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Re: Leave it to our last (mostly) honest president...

Post by k.d. » Tue May 01, 2018 3:35 pm

If you think the 2nd amendment and the reason for it is irrelevant, there is no need to continue.
“Everything government touches turns to crap.”

― Ringo Starr

j.p.
Posts: 343
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:40 pm

Re: Leave it to our last (mostly) honest president...

Post by j.p. » Wed May 02, 2018 7:51 am

k.d. wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 3:35 pm
If you think the 2nd amendment and the reason for it is irrelevant, there is no need to continue.
Who doesn't know the reason for the second amendment for chrisakes.!!

b.w. richardson
Posts: 87
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:40 pm

Re: Leave it to our last (mostly) honest president...

Post by b.w. richardson » Wed May 02, 2018 9:31 am

j.p. wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 7:51 am
k.d. wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 3:35 pm
If you think the 2nd amendment and the reason for it is irrelevant, there is no need to continue.
Who doesn't know the reason for the second amendment for chrisakes.!!
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Yep, the reason was to ensure that a tyrannical government would never again threaten folks' freedom.

We being under British rule at the time, I take the meaning of the word "regulated" from the British definition at Dictionary.com:
1. to adjust (the amount of heat, sound, etc, of something) as required; control
2. to adjust (an instrument or appliance) so that it operates correctly
3. to bring into conformity with a rule, principle, or usage

None of these suggests intervention by a government to infringe on the right to keep and bear arms, and even if it did, the plain language of the amendment prohibits the newly formed government from doing any such thing.

I'm still a little amused that you say the thread isn't about guns, it's about misinterpreting the words, and yet you're talking about guns by the time your first post ends.

Let's discuss the words: What words in the 1791 sentence make you believe an American government has the right to ban any arms that could be used to secure a free state?

j.p.
Posts: 343
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:40 pm

Re: Leave it to our last (mostly) honest president...

Post by j.p. » Wed May 02, 2018 11:17 am

b.w. richardson wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 9:31 am

I'm still a little amused that you say the thread isn't about guns, it's about misinterpreting the words, and yet you're talking about guns by the time your first post ends.

Let's discuss the words: What words in the 1791 sentence make you believe an American government has the right to ban any arms that could be used to secure a free state?

Regarding your first sentence...
I don't think I ever referred to "guns" as in plural, when making my argument. Maybe you could show me. I have referred to "a gun". The difference between "a gun" and "guns" is profound in a number of ways. I think it was no other weapon BUT the AR 15 that I thought could be restricted. If I'm wrong there please point this out.

Even the Jimmy article quote didn't refer to guns ????

Second sentence...
Words are words, right ? I won't take the same liberties as you did to spin it
1) Militia
2) necessary to the security of a free State
3) Arms
4) Infringed

The only thing that matters is:
1) 200 or so years of constitutional case law.

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