About those Russians

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b.w. richardson
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Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:40 pm

About those Russians

Post by b.w. richardson » Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:01 pm

I don't know whether the Russians tried to tamper with the U.S. election last year, and I don't know whether the Trump campaign or the Clinton campaign had anything to do with it.

What I do know is whatever the Russians did or didn't do, they didn't influence anything. I don't know anyone who changed their mind about who they were going to vote for because of stuff the Russians supposedly did. You could have held the election at the beginning of September and the results would have been exactly the same as November.

You were going to vote against Trump, or you were going to vote against Clinton, or you were going to vote for one of the pathetic candidates the third and fourth and fifth parties threw up. The country was polarized. No one changed their vote. In the end, more people were afraid of a Clinton presidency than a Trump presidency (except in California). Make no mistake, we all knew we were screwed for four years. The only mystery was which contemptible excuse for a human being was going to run the executive branch.

Oh, the Russians may have wanted to change people's minds. But they couldn't. Go ahead, try to find someone who was going to vote for Clinton but changed and voted for Trump because of something that turned out to be Russian propaganda. For that matter, try to find the opposite, someone who was going for Trump but changed their mind and voted Clinton. There's no such person.

j.p.
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:40 pm

Re: About those Russians

Post by j.p. » Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:40 am

I personally don't know anybody who changed their minds, but the polls swung over 15 % in Wisconsin alone between Sept and December. Say what you will about polls, they have been pretty accurate in the aggregate. It seems alot of people changed their minds. Trump and Clinton led very public lives, we knew everything about them. It is hard to explain the unprecedented results.

I don't think the Russkies had much to do with the results, but whoever was able convince people that Trump is a godly man is a political genius. Don't know if the GOP machine was up to such huge task.

k.d.
Posts: 117
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:19 pm

Re: About those Russians

Post by k.d. » Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:24 am

Nobody changed their mind. What we got was fake news reporting fake polls. MSM was never gonna say Trump was gonna win.
“Everything government touches turns to crap.”

― Ringo Starr

j.p.
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:40 pm

Re: About those Russians

Post by j.p. » Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:47 am

k.d. wrote:
Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:24 am
Nobody changed their mind. What we got was fake news reporting fake polls. MSM was never gonna say Trump was gonna win.
I have no idea what MSM means anymore. But the polls correctly reflected a toss up in the end. Which was basically what happened. BTW the scientific polls were not conducted by media outlets.

b.w. richardson
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:40 pm

Re: About those Russians

Post by b.w. richardson » Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:27 am

All a poll measures is the number of people willing to express an opinion. The way some people are willing to insult and belittle others for their beliefs, it's no surprise that many will decline to be polled until they can do so in secret at the real polling places. That's what happened with the Walker recall - one side rioted and tried to intimidate anyone who disagreed with them, and rather than engage the raving lunatics, voters just spoke with their votes.

Polls are the original fake news. It makes no difference how people say they will vote on April 20 or Oct. 3 when the actual vote is in November. Plus, as I said, you're only hearing from people willing to reveal their private vote.

Anyone who thinks Donald Trump is a godly man is an idjit. Anyone who thinks Hillary Clinton is an honest woman is also an idjit. People didn't vote for Trump; they voted against the Clinton machine. People didn't vote for Clinton, either; they voted against Trump. P.S. I didn't vote for either. Anyone who thinks there were only two choices enabled this disaster.

j.p.
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:40 pm

Re: About those Russians

Post by j.p. » Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:57 am

People lie or don't reveal their preference when polled, nothing new there. But that is factored into the margin of error. Putting aside the polls conducted by the campaigns themselves for PR, the aggregate scientific polls are pretty good snapshots at points in time. Polls taken months out are meaningless, exit polls are deadly accurate. All things equal, do you really think Trump would have won had the election been in September ?

Trump has a non-wavering base, he needed a needed a couple of months, with help, to point out how big a POS Clinton was to the rest of us.

Fake news has taken on many meanings as of late. One is to validate to people who are all already pre-disposed to believe something. I think maybe you got caught up in that with your comments about rioting, intimidation and raving lunatics during the recall. There was, of course, no rioting. Intimidation ??? you would have to be quite a snowflake be intimidated by retired grandmothers. I will agree with the raving lunatics though, many were my teacher relatives.

I wish I could agree with the comment about there being more than two choices.

b.w. richardson
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:40 pm

Re: About those Russians

Post by b.w. richardson » Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:44 am

Maybe it's a stretch to say a gang of thugs rocking the bus containing Republican legislators was a riot, or that a mob of people surrounding a lawmaker and shouting at him until a Democratic colleague rescued him was intimidation, but they're examples of why people who supported reining in the public employees unions shut up and stop sharing their opinions except in the privacy of the voting booth. No one likes to be hated or feel threatened.

There is always a choice other than allegiance to a political system that presented Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton as the only choices – even if the choice is to choose not to participate.

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